In beginning to write about this Revelation 13 false prophet, I realized how much power he/it has. Despite urgent study these past few days while experiencing the deceit and darkness cast upon my little human brain by the false prophet, I nevertheless am determined to push on and write anyway. Indeed, I believe the end times are here and now. The characters and situations have been with us, are with us, and will be with us until Jesus comes back–-the one time. Mine is a timeless/symbolic view. Yep, I believe John when he talked of things "sign-ified" to him, things he then signified to us. I do have trouble thinking John expected to have us arguing about such things throughout the centuries. In the words of the 1st century culture familiar with use of symbolic language, just imagine me shouting: "It’s symbolic! Face it and get over it!"
Maybe that wouldn’t be too polite. I will attempt to proceed more seriously. I do find that commentaries of nearly all the theories of interpretation agree on much in regard to the false prophet, particularly that he signifies false religion. The devil is the father of lies; he destroys and his war against us is...well, it’s truly diabolical.
"Out of the Earth"–Recall that the first beast came out of the unstable turmoil and strife of the people of the nations commonly depicted in Scripture as "the Sea." It symbolizes world power. This false prophet arises out of the earth, indicating it/he comes out of settled human society. Now, that makes sense. In somewhat settled society mankind is prone to look to religion(s). So we all seem to agree: The false prophet is false religion; more subtle than the beast–and more deadly.
"Two horns like a lamb"–You are going to get a little tired of hearing the word "parody" this post. The false religion tries to exhibit a plausible exterior that will mislead mankind. With the false prophet’s two horns he is assuming the appearance of The Lamb of God, Jesus. (Anyone visualizing a literal man with horns has my sympathy and I hope you’ll feel better soon.)
Man longs to escape failures and sinfulness. This false religion arises out of man’s fear and lack of knowledge of the true God and takes advantage of man’s instinctive religiousness. The false prophet offers escape through selecting what seems the best of various external styles and ideas of pagan or other quasi-religious practices. The Greeks, according to Plato, thought man could commit murder or other of man’s worst offenses and obtain pardon if they offered sufficient sacrifices. (Plato, "Republic"--no, Plato wasn't talking about Jesus redeeming us on the cross with the Holy Spirit bringing us to repentance.) It is religion without Godly authority. If a man had instinctive religiousness tendencies, such undue reliance on external practice will either suppress, kill or cripple what good instincts to worship God he has. All of this is done to man without man recognizing that his successful (in man’s eyes), glorious and often ostentatious religion is false. It looks like Christ, sounds a little like Christ, yet it teaches that unrighteous lives can be cleansed by these formal external acts. It makes no demands on the Spiritual nature or upon the will of man. By so doing, Satan tries hard to separate religion from morality, thereby frustrating true religion. Such false religion/religions are the most cruel deceits Satan can spring upon mankind.
How does the false prophet mislead man and do his dirty work so effectively? He/it imitates true religion.
"It works great signs"–Can you hear the parody tickling your ears?
(a) "Fire down from heaven in the sight of men." Really? Has the devil brought down fire in the past, like Moses during the Egyptian plagues or Elijah on Mount Carmel? So, if it hasn’t been done yet it means the timeless interpretation is all wrong? The Bible being the inspired Word of God, just maybe we have overlooked important symbolism in some preceding verses. Context, context, context.
In Revelation 11:4,5 we have the two witnesses. "These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies." Hey, that helps! Satan is making another parody! Also, it is clear in Zechariah chapters 3,4 that Zechariah was encouraging the people to rebuild, to rely upon God, to reestablish high priest Joshua and governor Jerubbabel as Godly and Holy leaders of the God believing people of that time. Joshua and Jerubbabel stand for the two branches of God’s chosen people, priest and ruler. They are the two olive trees feeding fuel to the lamp and the seven lights thereon. The seven are specifically identified as the eyes of God ranging throughout the earth. Thus, we have clear and definite identification here in Revelation 11. Just as the two representations of the two olive trees are symbolic in Zechariah of feeding the lamps that shine in the world, here we have the symbolic representation of the Christian witness throughout the world. (Remember, too, the Biblical importance of having two witnesses to establish truth!) There is great symbolism in Zechariah and there is much the same symbolism in Revelation.
Also, we must consider these Words from Jeremiah 5:14 : "...I will make my words in your mouth a fire and these people the wood it consumes." (NIV)
So, in chapters 11 and 13 who can be dogmatic and insist that the words must be read literally? Clearly, there is Biblical precedent for meaningful analogy and figures of speech with which John would be familiar. In addition, even a modern author wrote of Church history and, without intending to refer to either Jeremiah or Revelation, said that in the first century Christianity spread across Europe like a wildfire. The Words from the Church mouths testifying of God’s plan of redemption made enemies into friends. And Satan can’t stand it; hence, another parody.
If true religion is depicted as bringing fire, then the false religion will mock it. Is this beast of the earth bringing fire that indicates the strength of false teaching? Maybe, but other great signs may be accomplished by the false prophet. Are they doing literal, pretended, fraudulent miracles to deceive people? I struggle keeping symbolism in mind, but do think it necessary. Such signs might be, I propose, military success or conquering the souls of man–-preaching universalism, a scientific existentialism, or a protestant salvation forever by repeating a "magical" sinners prayer so that morality and obedience to God are no longer necessary. Note, I would not dare distress anyone by mentioning the false religion of Islam that grows by force and violence nor the Catholic heresy practiced by some of worshiping Mary as God. Man-made theology imitating true Christian doctrine abounds. All these are but a few examples. The false teaching of the false religion goes on and on.
(b) Verse 15 "given power to give breath"—The second beast, the false prophet, seems to be playing the satanic role of the Holy Spirit. See Rev. 11:11 and compare also John 6:63 (the Spirit, or Breath, gives life.). With false religion in league with the beast of world power, we must conform to world powers or face persecution or even death. Image? Not an easy concept here, but we are taught of the Holy Spirit's work to bring us to understand and worship God. And Jesus, who is God, came to us. He who sees Jesus sees the Father. I urge that we put away the literalness and see the parody in the talk of image here. We see imitation of the Trinity; one God with different roles to play that we all might know God the Creator and His plan of redemption. The dragon, the beast from the sea and the beast from the earth are an unholy trinity. The beast from the sea and the beast from earth are obediently doing the work their master, the dragon, has for them. They are the image of their master.
(c) The "mark on the right hand or forehead"—This could well be discussed under sub-paragraph (b), particularly in the ‘image’ discussion, yet it is worthy of separate treatment. Again, it seems we have a parody. In Rev. 7:3,4 a seal was placed "on the foreheads of the servants of our God." So what does Satan do? He mocks it. Is John emphasizing the insidious evil nature of false religion, or is this literally an external mark Satan is using? Is it a literal external seal God is using? I submit we can gain a clearer understanding by turning to Deuteronomy 6:5-9:
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your heart. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates." (NIV)
Consistently, God wants worshipers to love Him from the heart. Jesus decried the external trappings of the Jewish hierarchy. He wanted us to see with the eyes and ears of our hearts. Aren’t the sentences of external binding and signs subsidiary to the reason for doing so: keep His Word in your heart, teach your children, be constantly reminded. Psalm 1 tells us the righteous man meditates on God’s law day and night. I will never believe God intended us never to sleep! I have to believe we are seeing a lot of pointed urging in these passages, an impressing upon us of how important God’s law is.
So in Revelation, did the people in John’s day show their allegiance to the Emperor by actual marks on the forehead and arms? If they did not publicly declare their allegiance to the world power they faced death. Throughout history people have been killed, burned at the stack, for not publicly showing their allegiance to the beasts. There were the Roman’s and their demands. We’ve had the Spanish Inquisition for a time. In Russia, Christianity was harshly suppressed for a time and people were killed and suffered because of their belief. In Muslim countries today I doubt that Christians will long survive what may ultimately become all encompassing Islamic rule if they are not restrained.
The question I have seems to be whether the mark is totally "upon your heart." Or, is this a visible sign? As for as the beast’s marking, I really cannot say with any confidence how much marking visibly is meant here in Revelation. As I named a few of the famous persecutions in history I realize I am not knowledgeable of the use of special markings on the foreheads and arms to preserve economic livelihood or life. There have been ostracisms and sufferings and the Nazis imposed the wearing of identifying patches, but that wasn’t on the foreheads. I suggest this poses a problem to the historicist school of Revelation. If it didn’t happen, then the beast has not come yet. Well, maybe...perhaps the Lord is not scheduled to return for awhile....
No, I like the timeless/symbolic thoughts here. God’s love in the hearts of Christians, and the beasts’ mocking, figuratively denotes that everyone, Christian or otherwise, gives evidence of loyalty. The godless worship of the world transforms one into the world’s likeness. A person becomes increasingly in the image of his master.
(d) The number 666—This is a sneaky little scheme to have you come back to my blog for the discussion of this historically debated and argued problem. No, really, I didn’t plan it this way. Yet, you know better than I, that this blog post is already long. I will try to post the discussion of the infamous numbers without undue delay.
11 comments:
Hey, it was worth the wait! thanks for all the thoughtful work, there, Gringo. Detailed comments will follow shortly at Incrediblog.
Thank you. It was a labor of love. At my age I need to go back and review the things I thought I once knew pretty well. I actually do not claim all knowledge (ahem) or that this view fits and answers everything. I can only assert, however, the "view" has real merit in so very many places.
Also, I have noted that once I write it is difficult for me to immediately proofread. This morning little goofs pop out at me. I've been editing, little things mostly--but medium sized mistake in one of the quotations and I left out the Jeremiah quote the first time around. At last, I think it is generally correct.
Psst, you might want to read it again before your detailed evaluation.
I think I've finally realized what is probably at the innermost core of my iffy-ness about the Timeless/Symbolic view. Of all the interpretive schemes, and for all their problems (all of which bug the crud out of me--I'm as yet unable to fully embrace any of them), the T/S view is the only one that doesn't require a supernatural source of inspiration for it to have been written.
I'm not saying the T/S view rejects God's direct inspiration of Revelation, but it allows for the rejection of it, in its contention that Revelation is merely a symbolic representation of reality -- reality as John already knew and understood it. It would've taken cleverness, creativity and a lot of "deep thinkin" time on his hands (I'm thinking exile on Patmos probably provided plenty of that) for John to come up with all these cool reality-representing images, but not necessarily God.
Hmm, I'll have to think about that awhile. Mark is a favorite Gospel, very concisely worded. Lots of "then they went to...." Does it all make inspired sense only in view of the incarnation and crucifixion? Maybe Mark is a bad example. Okay back to Revelation, when we look at all the tremendous amount of Old Testament allusions and showing of the reality of O.T. types...yes, I suggest John wrote a teaching document and only the Holy Spirit could have put it all together. More specifically, Sir McDust, aren't you bothered that specific prophesy of the future seems to be not so prominent with this system of interpretation? Hmm, later on in the 20s chapters we find some beautiful portraits of the future, i.e., God's victory. Does James or Peter, e.g., do more or show more inspiration by their instruction for living now? Are there not beautiful truths expressed? Well, you do give us food for thought. Now I need time to digest it.
What I'm looking at is the fact that every other interpretive scheme out there contends that Revelation is (miraculously)detailing future world events. This, of course, requires God to be the source.
The T/S view is the only one that says, in effect, "Revelation is merely a fantastic symbolic description of the reality John was currently living in." It's amazing to read, as is the Lord of the Rings trilogy. God isn't required to have written it; though, again, I'm not saying the T/S view rejects God's having written it. But it does allow for that rejection -- it's the only interpretive scheme that allows for that rejection.
Agreed, the final judgment and paradise visions are of future events. But those future events were already spoken of by Jesus and taught about by the Apostles -- so again, even with the final chapters, we see John merely giving some fantastic imagery to already familiar concepts.
(I'm not exactly sure what the huge, important point is in my observing this -- it just strikes me as interesting. Therefore, I've probably commented way out of proportion to my actual passions on the subject. I do think the T/S take on Revelation is perhaps the most practical one to meditate on. Practicality is good.)
Naaawww, T/S doesn't just say that!
["Revelation is merely a fantastic symbolic description of the reality John was currently living in."] Yes, it speaks of the current situation, but also the next persecution and the next and so on. And it gives encouragement and hope...and many hours trying to figure it out. But we know God wins and so do those who believe in Him, and there are times when that is very important to remember!
As has been said, perhaps even by you, McDust, that most of the other interpretations interpret the end time as based on history as we know it and present day events. How dumb will we look to those reading our comments in 500 years, and Jesus still hasn't returned?
You might recall that a disciple asked Jesus the time of His return. Jesus answered that was known only by the Father. It is my belief that Jesus could not be fully man if He had such Awesome, Fantastic, Incredible knowledge that no other human has.
John, with the help of the Holy Spirit, managed to avoid the Roman letter censors and persecutors to tell of Rome's temporary supremacy without them understanding. Yet He also spoke the needed encouragement without even pretending to give us a particular date...even in round figures. But, McDust, thanks for posting and speak up whatever come to your mind.
I think I know what Dustin is saying, only my formulation of the objection is more like this:
The Timeless/Symbolic view eliminates the "prophetic" element from Revelation's prophecies.
My other major objection is the wide-open invitation to come to the Text saying, "Hmm. This is what this means to me." Whatever seems or feels like a five-month plague of locusts to you--well, that's what it's meant to be. There's no other meaning to the Text but the one you can come up with.
We laugh the Dispensationalists to scorn (deservedly) for looking to the daily paper to find fulfillments for their system, but the Timeless/Symbolic view would seem to cut from under you the solid place on which you stand and laugh. I mean, on the T/S view, what would be wrong with reading the paper and saying, "Aha, this is this and that is that!" If the false prophet is any false religious system, then how can you castigate the Dispies for thinking maybe the World Council of Churches is the fulfillment? If any candidate for the job is just as right as any other, how can you tell the Dispies they're wrong?
How is that different than modern champions of tolerance who say to the Christian, "All views are equally good...except yours?"
It seems to me you're left with (in the T/S mode,) "Any bad church is the false prophet...except the ones you Dispies imagine."
Y'know? It seems you're left with no real basis on which to say that any other view has it wrong. They're right by definition because anything fits if you think it does.
Sorry to rant about this. It has just taken me months and months (literally) to begin to really articulate what it is that throws up the red flags for me when considering this view.
That was quite a rant! But it was also an excellent comment...and I'm thinking, I'm thinking!
It occurs to me that when Job made his most beautiful statement, "I know that my Redeemer lives and in the end He will walk upon the earth" he was unconcerned about who the antichrist was and when the end would come. (That's not a real quote, but from my lazy memory without looking it up. Yet it has the meaning correct.)
John, Peter, Mark, Luke, Paul, Matthew, Jude, James, the Hebrews writer--none of them focused on the importance of our diligent efforts to determine when the end is coming and who or what is the antichrist--so we can know when the end time comes. In fact, we are told that such knowledge is not for us.
You almost had me persuaded about the T/S allowing subjective ideas to be consistent with any and every false religions and nation powers. Then, I remembered a line or two from John's letters.
It is worth noting that John, the Apostle, wrote his Gospel and his letters. And this same John, the Apostle, (I strongly believe) wrote Revelation. Did John have a different usage or definition of antichrist when he wrote the letters as opposed to Revelation?
I've selected parts from 1 John 2:18: "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come."
I've not typed out the verses that tell us how we know it is the last hour and gives assurances for all who know the truth. Then he continues: "(vs 22)Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son."
Now we jump to 1 John 4:1-6. We are to test the spirits, "because many false prophets have gone out into the world." John writes that the spirit that doesn't acknowledge Jesus "is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." John tells us that we "from God" have overcome the world, because God in us "is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them."
I direct your attention to 2 John, vs 7: "Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."
I deem it also worthwhile to look at the book of Jude. We find a warning about the "last days" with scoffers following their ungodly desires, men "who divide you" and follow "mere natural instincts." I agree he doesn't mention "antichrists" as John does, but what he writes is consistent with what John decides. He uses plural scoffers and men.
Your complaint about T/S is that subjectively we can identify almost everything in every age as the antichrist. That may be true, but more importantly we have no Bible based reason to promote a theology contrary to the Word. Revelation encourages, assures of our victory with God. We are warned of the dangers of every age--and every age has it's antichrist or anti-Christian propaganda.
I therefore suggest, Incredible Gordan, that you are really complaining that T/S analysis does nothing to inform us of the nearness of the 2nd Coming. Yes, it gets us to that! Revelation states He is coming "soon," but that "soon" has been nearly 2000 years and no human knows or can know that it will not be another 2000 years.
I also see what SHOULD be a restraint upon wild, unbridled interpretations in the fact that Revelation is filled with Old Testament references. In my experience most readers are unaware of the O.T. resources for seeing what some Revelation passages mean. Example: I think you and most everyone agree about the two witnesses, in line with what I've written. Many, however, go out in fantasy land even about that segment.
Now after all that, I will say, Gordan, that your reference to the beast healed and living again as speaking of the U.S. is original and not illogical upon reading your post. I suspect most readers are caused to hesitate, reread and ponder. Your thoughts are as good or better than the other schemes that have been around awhile.
In conclusion: You find a weakness in T/S, yet I see the weakness in other methods in the impossibility of proof or disproof, and in the constant problem of every generation applying the problems of their current time to being the meanings of the Revelation characters. I could add that I think most present time arguments ignore the O.T. allusions.
When I repeat myself it is time to quit. I think I have done that. Thanks for posting.
All John had to do was symbolize reality as he understood it; reality as he was living through it, then and there. Yes, due to the fact that "there is nothing new under the sun", the symbols end up being (more or less) applicable to all generations.
As Gordan rephrased it -- this is how the T/S view removes the prophetic element from Revelation -- by claiming that its imagery merely represents the general reality of every generation.
Looking at Revelation that way, it doesn't miraculously "predict" anything. It simply says, "this is reality." In my opinion, that clashes with how the book of Revelation presents itself at the beginning -- as a book of prophecy.
That is, for example: All of Paul's letters say, in effect, "this is reality." And those letters describing reality have proven relevant to every subsequent generation. But that "always applicable" quality about Paul's letters doesn't qualify them as prophecy. Therefore, I don't see how that quality can qualify Revelation as prophecy.
BILL WILSON - FALSE PROPHET
The Lord knows the thoughts of man; he knows that they are futile. Psalm 94:11
It is important to note that Bill Wilson's faith system was not based on Jesus Christ and Him crucified; nor is there any mention of Jesus Christ being the Savior from his sin. Both he and Bob Smith (co-founder of AA) embraced and promoted a variety of spiritual experiences, which included practicing spiritualism and conversing with the dead (which the Bible forbids) and being heavily involved in séances. Wilson also acted as a medium or channeler. It was while involved in these types of religious experiences, not Biblical Christianity, that Wilson developed his Twelve Steps (Pass It On, pp 156, 198, 275, 278).
sandwalk.blogspot.com/2007/03/alcoholics-anonymous-12-steps.html - 338k - 28 Jul 2007
PEACE BE WITH YOU
MICKY
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